Dress Modestly

[fschmidt]

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[Hax Templar]

I respect the idea of dressing modestly but I'm not sure if I could strictly enforce it upon my kids.  I don't have any actually, although I would like to.  The thing is, if you are trying to "ride the tiger" and live in the city (as I do) you want to dress modestly but you are also competing with people who do not intend to dress modestly.  The dilemma becomes staying modest without getting trashed by people who don't limit themselves at all.  Immodesty is not just inconsiderate, it's also a show of power, potentially challenging and hostile.

For example, I'm a man and I want a woman with a good waist to hip ratio.  If everyone hides their waist then that's fine but if some girls are walking around showing it off entirely, is it smart for a girl to not show her waist at all? In doing that she can give off the impression that she is not as physically attractive as those other girls.  Which may not even be true.  A middle ground might be those waist-hugging shirts that are sold.

Similarly, I own a tailored suit.  I almost never wear it.  But I wear it sometimes when it's appropriate to do so.  If I show up to an event where people are wearing their best suits and I wear a bad one, it is suggesting that those other guys have more power than I do.  I know it's shallow and stupid but I am surrounded by such people all the time =/ So I don't feel like being consistently modest is a real option.

[Peter]

Mr. Templar, welcome to the forum. I think in today's society dressing modestly is almost on par with wearing Tzitzit for the Jews or wearing the white cap + arabic robes for Muslims. Its a statement to the decadent majority that we are not the same and we do not intend to assimilate.

Inmodesty is increasing common, as piercings and tattoos are almost the norm. When the mayan and aztec society was decaying, thats also the case.  

Also, for a woman to hide her physical asset is important, thats how she can avoid rapists and players.

[fschmidt]

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[Drealm]

I'm in a mental conundrum. My issue is similar to Hax Templar. The reality is that we're not a self reproducing community at this point. So unmarried members need to enter and compete with other men or women in a dating environment that belongs to the world. In this world that we don't belong to, it's advantageous to dress immodestly. How does someone who wants to maintain modesty compete in an environment where people do not abide by these rules? The Amish, Hasidics, Muslims, etc all have a level playing field where no one has an unfair advantage.

[fschmidt]

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[Drealm]

I think the question I'm going towards is does increasing sex appeal equate to being immodest.

Not all women are born equally attractive. So when you say women don't have a problem attracting men, I agree but it has the catch that not all women attract the same number or quality of men. For example if a woman is born with a small chest and uses a push up bra to enhance her cup size is this being immodest or is it just fair game?

I don't think women know whether a suit is expensive or not. I think they just see a suit or no suit. A suit does to a man what a push up bra does to a woman. It drastically increases shoulder width. Would it be immodest for a narrow shouldered man to wear suit to make his upper body silhouette wider? Also white as a color exaggerates the size of someone (just as black slims people down). So a white suit would increase a person's upper body mass.

It's unclear to me where to draw the line between increasing sex appeal and being outright immodest.

[fschmidt]

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[Drealm]

The practical question is how to attract a mate in a society that favors immodest dress. If you dress modestly you will attract less people. Now a days for man to just be "average" he needs to show significant muscular development, which is immodest. A scrawny weakling that displays no muscular definition will be evolutionarily unsuccesful.

[qwerty]

To respond to Drealm's point, I think that the most important things is not to base your choices of clothing on what will attract you a mate. If you find a good romantic partner, he or she will choose you because of your personal qualities and not just because you look attractive in a revealing piece of clothing. This is true for both men and women. If you have trouble finding someone who will be attracted to you if you dress modestly, that means that you need to look in different places, even if that means looking in a different country. Besides, wearing clothing that covers the arms could actually help unathletic men, as it makes it more difficult for others to determine that one is not muscular.

Also, what levels of exemption are allowed for people in hot climates or people who are exercising? Are shorts and T-shirts allowed as long as they cover the knees and the collarbone? Also, what levels of exemption are allowed at the beach? One must admit that the swimsuits from the early 20th century are quite impractical. Is it okay for men to be shirtless, and would women's bikinis be allowed?

[Drealm]

qwerty wrote

To respond to Drealm's point, I think that the most important things is not to base your choices of clothing on what will attract you a mate. If you find a good romantic partner, he or she will choose you because of your personal qualities and not just because you look attractive in a revealing piece of clothing.

In theory yes, but in reality you cannot judge personal qualities if you have no history with them. When someone is a stranger the only thing they can judge you on is what's on the surface. Based on this they'll receive you positively or they won't. This is especially true in the case of trying to meet someone online or cold approaching strangers. This is relevant to men on this forum since most here do not have an extended family/friend network in some country outside north America/western Europe where you can be introduced to people.

qwerty wrote

Besides, wearing clothing that covers the arms could actually help unathletic men, as it makes it more difficult for others to determine that one is not muscular.

Or it can be an admission that he's a weakling who's afraid to show anything.

[Allen]

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